Law Times

PAGE 12 FOCUS November 14, 2011 • Law Times Lawyers usurping HR practitioners in training work But some legal professionals lack hands-on experience, facilitation skills BY KENNETH JACKSON For Law Times C ompanies are more than ever looking to lawyers to train their staff on diff erent aspects of human re- sources instead of actually hiring a human resources consultant or practitioner, according to a Mis- sissauga, Ont., lawyer. "I think it is becoming more common," said Patrizia Piccolo, a partner and department head of human resource law at Keyser Mason Ball LLP. Piccolo notes a simple Google search will show the trend based on the number of law fi rms off er- ing training. "Th ere are a number of fi rms, ourselves included, that are in certain areas of HR off ering training from a legal standpoint to make sure people are covering off all the legal stuff ," she says. Th e fi rst one that pops up on a search of Toronto fi rms doing that is Rubin Th omlinson LLP. A portion of its web site focuses on this area of law. It even pro- vides a calendar of upcoming training sessions. "Our participants fi nd these programs training invaluable," the fi rms says on its web site. "Th ey tell us that, with their in- creased knowledge, they are bet- ter able to manage workplace is- sues that arise, and their need for legal intervention becomes less and less frequent." But does that make lawyers a better choice to off er train- ing than their human resources counterparts? Piccolo is diplomatic in her response. "As a lawyer, of course, I live and breathe these cases a lot of the time. So I am able to bring that experience or that knowl- edge base along with the train- ing. Th e other part, of course, is I am looking at it from a case law and legal standpoint." If there are steps an employer training, steps or due diligence needs to be put in place in order to meet that legal test." Marlene Nyilassy has decades of experience in the human re- sources fi eld and is senior vice president of people and engage- ment at Nelson Education Ltd. in Toronto. Nyilassy doesn't nec- essary disagree with Piccolo but says human resources profession- als should do the actual training of employees. Th at doesn't mean it's not im- 'Our participants find these training programs invaluable,' says Patrizia Piccolo. needs to take to ensure that a legal case is successful, it helps to know the law beforehand as opposed to waiting until things have gone wrong, says Piccolo. "It's nice to have that insight or knowledge on [how to] avoid getting into the courtroom and what type of portant to have an understanding of the laws, she says, noting that having a lawyer come in and pro- vide information can be useful. But she wouldn't want the two to be mutually exclusive of one another. "I think depending on the culture of your organization, I think there is value in the HR people delivering that training because training is something we know how to facilitate. Hav- ing legal expertise come in and collaborate with that learning specialist is probably your ide- al," says Nyilassy. She notes that when law- yers come in, they bring the facts. But a human resources professional deals with the be- havioural aspects of how things happen in an organization, she adds. "What the human re- source professionals who work in organizations bring to the ta- ble is the day-to-day operations of how the organization works and how the culture works in the organization." Piccolo says she off ers train- ing in the areas of harassment, discrimination, termination, and workplace investigations. "Every day is a diff erent day. People get themselves involved in so many diff erent things in the workplace, which makes for sort of an excit- ing life for me. I think a lot of what's going on in the workplace is not black and white. Th ere's a lot of strategy that gets involved." According to Piccolo, her cli- CHOOSE THE LABOUR LAW CONTENT THAT FITS YOUR NEEDS LABOUR SPECTRUM FEATURING CANADIAN LABOUR ARBITRATION, FOURTH EDITION (BROWN & BEATTY) Labour Spectrum integrates case law, leading authored works, and up-to-date legislation – all in an accessible online format. Designed for labour practitioners, in-house counsel, unions and human resource professionals, Labour Spectrum allows you to choose the level of service that fits your needs. 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A collection of labour relations board decisions • All court decisions cited in Canadian Labour Law, Second Edition • Images of reported decisions in PDF format ents are looking for someone to bring real-life legal experiences to the training. While someone can talk about the law, compa- nies want her to discuss in detail how certain laws have played out either in the courts in reported decisions or cases she may have dealt with personally. Clients are interested in knowing what the outcome was. One area clients tend to fo- cus on is termination training, especially for the diffi cult cases. "I'm talking about the ones that have high legal exposure, high legal risks in that you have to terminate the pregnant employ- ee, the older employee, and so on," says Piccolo. She tells clients that properly documenting issues in advance of a termination is critical to a successful one. But a bigger suc- cess for her is keeping the mat- ter from making its way into the courts in the fi rst place. "We come to a resolution so we're not spending money fi ghting," she says, noting the training takes a few hours. Still, she admits that human resources professionals may have one thing over her. "What per- haps they might have over me is — and I would suppose it would vary depending on the consultant — one of the things I have never done is actually run an HR department. So some consultants may actually have that hands-on experience in the trenches." At the same time, McMillan CANADA LAW BOOK® www.lawtimesnews.com LLP's George Waggott echoes one of the issues Nyilassy raises. "Th e one thing I'm going to be quite blunt about is some law- yers are better than other lawyers at actually doing it for training," says Waggott, who has off ered training in the areas of termina- tion, discrimination, and harass- ment to employers for the past 15 years. "Lawyers aren't themselves necessarily trained to be trainers. Some of it is skill set and who people connect with better."

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